Hyundai Genesis Forum banner
1 - 20 of 25 Posts

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
10,780 Posts
Discussion Starter · #1 ·

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
1,273 Posts
I dont know why you would NOT need a manual boost controller. If you want a set boost level I would say you wouldn't need a MBC but if you're wanting to be able to adjust the boost I would say its a wise investment. Never know when you're going to want to throw in some C16 and give it a few more PSI for the local test & tune.

I have ZERO knowledge of "a WOT box".
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
10,780 Posts
Discussion Starter · #4 · (Edited)
I dont know why you would NOT need a manual boost controller. If you want a set boost level I would say you wouldn't need a MBC but if you're wanting to be able to adjust the boost I would say its a wise investment. Never know when you're going to want to throw in some C16 and give it a few more PSI for the local test & tune.

I have ZERO knowledge of "a WOT box".
WOT Box



Vendor forum: N2MB Racing

MBC: That's what I was thinking Jrod, but if so, why are people wanting to sell their boost controllers now they have PowerX tune? I figure on having 2 tunes through the PowerX, but would still like the ability to step out of the car, pop the hood & adjust boost for whatever may come up.

Thanks for the reply.



100% free webcam site! | Awesome chicks and it is absolutely free! | Watch free live sex cam - easy as 1-2-3
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,307 Posts
The only reason to have an MBC with the PowerX tune would be to increase boost above the set level determined by the tune. PowerAXEL is able to adjust the limit the factory solenoid will allow, which makes the solenoid act like a boost controller, but you are right, if you want to up the boost beyond the set limit a mbc is needed.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
15 Posts
an EBC is what you really want.

MBCs are a crutch. Due to their design they almost always have slower spool up than an EBC, they have spiking problems, and the boost levels will fluctuate with changes in weather. They are a pain to adjust unless you don't mind routing 2 long vacuum lines in to your cabin. Their adjustment is always a guessing game, you have to adjust, make a test run, and readjust to get the boost level you want. If your MBC is trapped under the hood this is a real pain.

Want to make a quick adjustment and lower your boost? Great. Now have fun getting back to your previous boost level, it will probably take you a few attempts.

I don't care how good someone's ball and spring design is, they're all the same in the end (unless you're even more ghetto and using an aquarium bleeder valve).
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
10,780 Posts
Discussion Starter · #7 ·
^^^Not sure about Buschur's, but BeyondRedline's MBC is designed to click & you can feel it when adjusting. So, if you turn it up 3 clicks to raise boost, to return to original position, just turn it back 3 clicks. As far as getting out of vehicle to adjust boost, it is not that a big of a deal since I don't expect to be adjusting it constantly.

As far as the the slower spooling, spiking issues, & boost fluctuation, I would like to hear what others have to say, because this could sway me away from an MBC to an EBC if this is true & others have experienced similar problems.



100% free webcam site! | Awesome chicks and it is absolutely free! | Watch free live sex cam - easy as 1-2-3
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
10,780 Posts
Discussion Starter · #9 ·
just google MBC vs EBC if you want more opinions and hard facts than you can absorb, lol
I did a search & have been reading since your last post right up til now. Alot of back & forth; this ones better, that ones better, but in the end, the majority preferred the EBC.

I'm all about doing it right, so will research some more, but will pay the difference for the EBC if I feel it is worth it. I don't mind the additional effort it would take to install it either, since that's my thing.

I did find one read I thought I would post of a VW owner's opinion:

"Why are so EBCs (Electronic Boost Controllers) so much better than MBCs (Manual Boost Controllers)?
- Because EBCs can easily be adjusted from inside the cabin. Only SOME MBCs have this ability.
- EBCs often have the ability to control the duty cuty on the Boost Controlling Silenoid. This means you adjust the boost spike that can occur on turbocharged engines. You can force a big spike, or tame it down to not have a spike at all, your choice.
- EBCs have safety features such as setting maximum boost to prevent blowing up your turbo that MBCs cannot do.
- MBCs can leak boost because of it's ball and spring design, where as a EBC is much more dependable.
- Mid grade to high grade EBCs usually have atleast 2 boost maps and allows for shift on fly (for normal and aggressive driving for example).
- Higher grade EBCs simply have more features: More and more EBCs have an auto learning feature so create a decent boost map for the noobie, Apexi AVC-R for example has a gear learning ability, GReddy E-01 and the Apexi AVC-R has the ability to tune your boost curve based on RPM for a very fine tuned boost curved, GReddy E-01 can also control an Emanage device (VTEC (if equipped), timing and fuel controlling piggy back system) as well as connect additional sensors such as a Wideband O2."


Here's the liink: AVANT's GTI Log: EBC vs MBC differences



100% free webcam site! | Awesome chicks and it is absolutely free! | Watch free live sex cam - easy as 1-2-3
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,307 Posts
FYI the stock solenoid acts like a non-adjustible ebc with the poweraxel tune. EBCs are nice if you have the ability within your tune to adjust your boost to a higher level for track days etc. For all practical purposes, most people that own this car won't need an ebc if they get a good tune since the factory turbo won't do much more than the tune will allow. IMO, if you plan on upgrading turbo, internals, etc it probably wouldn't be a bad investment but again its not truly necessary.

FYI I've used both and tuned with both on several of my own cars and several other peoples cars. I really haven't seen any overwhelming evidence to support one over the other. For me, the extra time it takes to adjust a MBC versus an EBC is a non-issue. I feel like it has helped to better tune myself as to what the car is doing. That being said, a nice EBC can be a good safety measure when optioned right, especially on a stock motor like the theta.

Another aspect to consider is internal versus external WGs. The stock WG on almost every factory car I've ever seen is junk and this is the most pivotal point for controlling boost. Having an EBC vs MBC here can make little to no difference if the desired boost level is unstable due to the factory WG not being able to hold that pressure. The stock WG on the gen coupe is crap just like any others that I have seen and I think that upgrading it to a better unit would be more beneficial than trying to control it with an ebc if you plan to keep the stock turbo for a while. I HATE internal WGs and will be using an external WG in the very near future. The overall design of internal WGs is very inefficient and ineffective at controlling turbochargers in a performance oriented manor. The WG is where the rubber meets the road when it comes to boost control and is ultimately the final say in the performance characteristics given a set turbocharger.
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
10,780 Posts
Discussion Starter · #11 · (Edited)
^^^^...based on what's known thus far, I'm considering 3 stages of engine upgrades:

1) Buschur manifold back exhaust, Buschur standard FMIC & piping w/TIAL 50mm BOV in cold pipe & block off plate, TIAL external WG, Buschur CAI, PowerX tune, MBC -- Unless I'm convinced that I need the EBC

Plus: AGP oil accumulator, 2 Aeroforce gauges, N2NB WOT box, racing clutch assy & SS line, EBC brake pads & SS lines, coil overs & all other suspension upgrades, wheels & tires.

2) BeyondRedline pistons, rods, cams, replacement bolts & gasket engine kit, Buschur stock turbo upgrade, port & polish exhaust manifold, intake manifold & head locally, AMS return style fuel system upgrade, larger injectors, 2nd tune PowerX.

Plus: all CF body parts.

3) If I'm still not satisfied or get bored w/stage 2 - HTA3076 turbo, e85 conversion w/even larger injectors, Walbro double pumper, retune PowerX

Now based on the info given for my plan of attack, do you think an EBC will be necessary, considering I will already have PowerX tune, MBC, external WG & BOV. Not to mention 2 AeroForce gauges to read everything.



100% free webcam site! | Awesome chicks and it is absolutely free! | Watch free live sex cam - easy as 1-2-3
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,307 Posts
I'd say some kind of in cabin adjustible boost controller (ebc or mbc) would be nice to have once you get that stuff done.

In reference to your first stage, you do realize that in order to use an external WG with the stock turbo you will need a custom DP and manifold right? I don't think that is necessary with the stock turbo, maybe just upgrade the internal WG to the AGP or ATP turbo billet one and that should be adequate.

I'm hoping that in the future, MAYBE PowerAXEL will come up with some kind of user interface that will allow certain parameters to be changed on the fly but who knows...
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
10,780 Posts
Discussion Starter · #13 ·
I'd say some kind of in cabin adjustible boost controller (ebc or mbc) would be nice to have once you get that stuff done.

In reference to your first stage, you do realize that in order to use an external WG with the stock turbo you will need a custom DP and manifold right? I don't think that is necessary with the stock turbo, maybe just upgrade the internal WG to the AGP or ATP turbo billet one and that should be adequate.

I'm hoping that in the future, MAYBE PowerAXEL will come up with some kind of user interface that will allow certain parameters to be changed on the fly but who knows...
No, I didn't realize I couldn't use an external WG..:mad: with the factory turbo & manifold. I am replacing the down pipe during the 1st stage, but will not be replacing the manifold until 3rd stage if at all. I was planning on using BeyondRedline's adapter plate for turbo upgrade when I got to stage 3, unless I find out that the stock exaust manifold is not as good as 1st suspected.

Will the AGP or ATP billet internal WG stop the bleeding off that occurs with the factory one?

By the way, I was wondering if I should include upgraded fuel injectors in stage one or will factory be ok until I actually upgrade the turbo?



100% free webcam site! | Awesome chicks and it is absolutely free! | Watch free live sex cam - easy as 1-2-3
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,307 Posts
The factory manifold looks like it will support really good numbers and be very resistant to cracking/breaking. It's a good design as well and with some P&P I don't think it's necessary to replace it.

With the ATP/AGP billet WG, it will hold higher boost pressures better but due to the inherent design flaw in flapper style internal WGs it will inevitably leak/bleed off some exhaust prematurely. For me this is the biggest reason that internal WGs are junk, they just don't seal well nor do they hold boost well. Using an external WG on the factory turbo is unnecessary and overkill really. External WGs become necessary when surge or boost spikes could potentially damage the engine and/or turbo. With an upgraded turbo like youre talking about (HTA3076R) there is NO WAY that turbo would perform as well as it could with an internal WG, it would be a waste of money to buy such a nice turbo and NOT get an external WG setup.

As far as the injectors go, the stock ones will be more than enough for your first stage. ATP is using the factory injectors with their 350hp garrett turbo upgrade with a return style fuel setup and having no issues. I think if anything, you might want to install a return style setup for piece of mind but again, it's probably not necessary until the turbo gets upgraded.
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
10,780 Posts
Discussion Starter · #15 ·

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,307 Posts
Haha, if ANY factory car came with a legitimate external WG setup (besides maybe supercars) that would be a miracle of biblical proportions! Sure thing man, I love talking about this kind of stuff and don't mind doing it at all. Definitely do the external WG with the HTA3076R, youre gonna need it!
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
12 Posts
What prevents you guys from making the turbo external?





Although I see absolutely NO reason to bother on the stock turbo.
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
10,780 Posts
Discussion Starter · #18 ·
What prevents you guys from making the turbo external?


Although I see absolutely NO reason to bother on the stock turbo.
I don't believe you can switch from internal to extrernal WG after what Geoman just advised me on above. If the factory is internal, you have to stick with that design, but you can upgrade to a better internal that does not bleed off like the factory one does once pressure us raised. Since I plan on having the stock turbo upgraded by Buschur & will be turning up the boost, I will have to improve the factory internal WG to something that can handle that new higher pressure w/o bleeding off.



100% free webcam site! | Awesome chicks and it is absolutely free! | Watch free live sex cam - easy as 1-2-3
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
11 Posts
Thanks for directing me to this thread Tufast. On the topic of keeping the stock downpipe and manifold for an external it should be possible. All you have to do is either weld shut the flapper on the stock internal or else use some wire to sire it shut.
This is a terrible pic but basically if you want to use an external you must find a way to bypass the stock internal or make it inoperable and unable to open.

The stock downpipe will be fine. All you have to do is take your manifold to an exhaust shop or someone food with a welder and cutter and have them weld in a flange for the external wastegate. From there you can decide if you want to vent the excess gas from the new wg back into the stock exhaust system or just have a turndown or something similar to vent it into the atmosphere. If you do that back pressure is no longer an issue and the wastegate has complete control and as long as it recieves constant vacuum pressure from your boost controller it should have rock solid control.
 
1 - 20 of 25 Posts
Top