[Sabbasaun]

We know that the stock turbo 4 will have right around 210-220+ HP. That has been confirmed. So what will the stock boost levels be for this car out of the box? No one knows for sure but I went ahead and tried out an online HP calculator. Now this was just for fun and not scientific by any means.

Known Variables: Base 2.0l World engine produces ~158HP at 10.5:1 Compression

I used Superchargersonline.com (SuperchargersOnline.com :: Supercharger Horsepower Calculator). I entered in a base HP figure of 158 HP. I started with 5psi, 92 octane, Rear Wheel Drive, 2-Core Intercooler and got a ~211RWP figure. At 6psi, I got a figure of 222RWP.

What does this mean? Nothing! This was just for fun remember? We do know that this engine is going to use lower boost levels but that it was also developed to use much higher boost, upto around 29psi. We know what the other World engine powered cars are making and with what psi levels they are doing it with. The Caliber SRT-4s are right around 285HP on roughly 15psi of boost. This however is with 2.4l of displacement. The EVOs are running similar HP numbers, around 295HP on ~19.5 psi but with smaller displacement.

My speculation is that Hyundai knows that this is a low amount of boost. They also know that people are gonna modify. If they didn't they wouldn't have had all those tuner and performance companies take a look at the car and get them interested in the car.

Anyways, those are just my thoughts, I'm interested in what everyone else thinks.



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[Tufast]

sabbasaun, I tend to agree with what you said above, I estimated the factory boost to under 10psi for sure to keep the engine tame so that there would be longevity in order to make the 10yr/100k warranty viable and to give reason to purchase the 6cyl.



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[Sebas007]

Don't forget Hyundai cliamed the 200T to produce between 210-220 based on fuel grade. However those figues aren't in WHP but in HP at the crank. The real power base unit has always been WHP (HP at the wheel) are RWHP (R for rear) . Depending of SAE formula tranny gear selection and lost...210-220 HP produce between 175-190 WHP.

I guess you should use 85% of the 158 HP the N/A 2.0L is making to find its WHP mark and re-use it in your formula. You should find an higher at least more accurate PSIg number

 

[Sebas007]

#1
Existing horsepower: 158 flywheel HP
Planned level of boost: 5
Planned fuel octane rating: 92
Intercooler / Aftercooler 2-Core


Result #1 (using crank HP)
HP Loss due to timing adjustment: 0
Est. flywheel HP with supercharger: 211.72
Est. rear wheel HP with supercharger: 169.376
Total HP Gain: 53.72 flywheel HP
Percentage Gain: 34 %


#2
Existing horsepower: 134 rear wheel HP (Around 85% of the Crank HP)
Planned level of boost: 5
Planned fuel octane rating: 92
Intercooler / Aftercooler 2-Core

Result #2 (using RWHP)
HP Loss due to timing adjustment: 0
Est. flywheel HP with supercharger: 224.45
Est. rear wheel HP with supercharger: 179.56
Total HP Gain: 45.56 rear wheel HP
Percentage Gain: 34 %


To retrieve the same result between RWHP and Crank HP I've used 126 RWHP vs 158 HP

For better result, I guess Garett Turbo calculator and Tech sections (from Basic to Expert) are for you guys. VERY interesting !
http://www.turbobygarrett.com/turbobygarrett/tech_center/tech_center.html

 

[Sabbasaun]

sabbasaun, I tend to agree with what you said above, I estimated the factory boost to under 10psi for sure to keep the engine tame so that there would be longevity in order to make the 10yr/100k warranty viable and to give reason to purchase the 6cyl.

Yup I agree and at the same time I think they know people will tinker and make modifications. So for those who goto the extremes in terms of making power out of the turbo 4 they won't honor the engine warranty.



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[Sabbasaun]

Don't forget Hyundai cliamed the 200T to produce between 210-220 based on fuel grade. However those figues aren't in WHP but in HP at the crank. The real power base unit has always been WHP (HP at the wheel) are RWHP (R for rear) . Depending of SAE formula tranny gear selection and lost...210-220 HP produce between 175-190 WHP.

I guess you should use 85% of the 158 HP the N/A 2.0L is making to find its WHP mark and re-use it in your formula. You should find an higher at least more accurate PSIg number

Very true for some reason I was thinking the HP figures I saw was wheel HP, which is usually never the case. I'll also have to factor in that the turbo engine is about 1.2 points lower in compression versus the naturally aspirated engines. I see you already did the calculations too in another post as well so that's good enough for me. I think it will be safe to say that we will have a little room to play with boost settings as long as everything else like fuel injectors and drivetrain components can are also in order. I know that some of the SRT-4 guys have been able to get quite a bit more power with some simple tricks. Cividtd04 could probably elaborate on that a little bit.



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[civictd04]

Sorry, this is looooong....

Yeah it all depends on the fuel and computer setup. If the computer is hard to tune then people will resort to using piggy backs or stand alone systems to control fuel and timing. If the computer is open then someone will hopefully crack it soon and it will be easier to tune correctly. Hopefully it's closely related to the Mitsubishi or Dodge setup, but I'm doubting it.

It might be possible to resort to what the SRT-4 crowd refer to as a mapclamp. Which is basically a voltage POT that adjusts the reading of the up to 5v source (MAP signal) and distorts it so that it reads less boost than the engine is actually making. This is what is refered to as a ghetto mod because it's low budget, but has worked on turbo Dodge vehicles for years. Only problem I see with using this method is that the Theta engine has two MAP sensors, which I'm sure both are used to adjust fuel delivery. Having two mapclamps would just complicated tuning of the engine to a degree.

Also when doing this mod or any other that involves increasing boost it's important to have the necessary fuel upgrades. With the mapclamp this is important because you're basically tricking the computer into thinking it sees less boost so that you don't throw engine codes. However, I must reiterate how important it is to increase fuel when increasing boost levels. Of course it's also very important to have a wideband and if available EGT sensors when tuning a car. :read:

By increasing fuel (there's several ways to do this) and adjusting the air fuel ratio with the mapclamp you can effectively do the poor man's tune (the mapclamp is a $20 part). The easiest way for more fuel is installing bigger injectors, or another way some people take is increasing the fuel pressure (this may or may not be involved depending on the setup of the fuel system). SRT-4 owners can install a fuel regulator mod ($20) that increases fuel pressure (this is easy to install), other owners resort to fuel return line systems that are more tuneable in that you can control the fuel pressure in psi, but this install is a little more involved for the SRT-4.

Most piggy back systems are glorified mapclamps, adjusting the signal the computer sees from the MAP signal at certain RPM points. More flexible to be sure. Some systems are more complicated in that they actually control fuel injectors, but those are usually pretty pricey systems and you might want to look into stand alone systems at that point to control the timing as well. But like I said, hopefully tuning the computer itself is figured out so we won't have to resort to such ghetto mods. It took four years for someone to come out with a tuner for the Dodge Neon SRT-4, hopefully someone can crack the Theta computer a little sooner.

It'll be interesting to see how people end up tuning the Theta engine. With Rhys and HKS I'd be surprised if both did not increase the boost on the engine for SEMA. The first question I'd like to ask is "How did you tune the computer?"

Civictd04

 

[apkraven]

i bet the stock boost level is around 7psi, but it's not right to try the calculation like this. the 2.0t reaches full boost too early and on the higher rev range the turbo becomes totally ineffective so really the only thing you could try is take the torque dyno chart and try to figure out how much is it higher by 2.0t , but anyways it isn't too important, the turbo is just too small to talk about performance in any way..

 

[Sabbasaun]

i bet the stock boost level is around 7psi, but it's not right to try the calculation like this. the 2.0t reaches full boost too early and on the higher rev range the turbo becomes totally ineffective so really the only thing you could try is take the torque dyno chart and try to figure out how much is it higher by 2.0t , but anyways it isn't too important, the turbo is just too small to talk about performance in any way..

I would have to disagree with you on a couple of points. Firstly, this was not a scientific post but a "let's have some fun" post. It is speculation at best and there's nothing wrong with speculating. We are not saying our calculations are 100% accurate. Secondly, we dont know the turbo is too small as no one knows the specs on the turbo. That being said I have seen the actual turbo and I can tell you it is physically bigger than the SRT-4 or WRX turbos. Both are capable of pushing a good amount of hp on the stock turbos. Of course again without knowing the actual specs of the turbo, no one can say anything conclusively.



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[Tufast]

I'm interested in seeing the actual upgrades done on the HKS version & the final output numbers. They stated in addition to a larger after market turbo, exaust, & intake, they had done some internal engine mods. I'm curious as to what extent they had to modify the engine in order to hold up to the additional power.
And yes, almost all manufacturers use crankshaft output horse power numbers because they are higher & reflect better on their product. For example, the new GTR has a rating of 480Hp, but was tested on a dyno at 418Hp at the wheels. I guess its like when the manufacturers use the optimal numbers for fuel consumption just to one up the competition. But, I've already decided to do a dyno test on my car prior to any mods to get a true reading at the wheels, then apply all mods & return for a new reading to see the results of my money spent.



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[civictd04]

I have to agree with Sabba's point on the turbo. If it's bigger than the stock SRT-4 turbo then it will probably be able to flow more air. The stock SRT-4 turbo is capable of producing around 320HP on the 2.4l engine. It's hard to say how much power you can get with the 2.0t turbo since we don't know the specs of the turbo yet tho.

Also both you and Tufast have the right idea about making adjustments and then checking it on a dyno to see what effect it had. Nothing like finding out your short ram intake makes you lose horsepower.

 

[PTPerformance]

We know that the stock turbo 4 will have right around 210-220+ HP. That has been confirmed. So what will the stock boost levels be for this car out of the box? No one knows for sure but I went ahead and tried out an online HP calculator. Now this was just for fun and not scientific by any means.

Known Variables: Base 2.0l World engine produces ~158HP at 10.5:1 Compression

I used Superchargersonline.com (SuperchargersOnline.com :: Supercharger Horsepower Calculator). I entered in a base HP figure of 158 HP. I started with 5psi, 92 octane, Rear Wheel Drive, 2-Core Intercooler and got a ~211RWP figure. At 6psi, I got a figure of 222RWP.

What does this mean? Nothing! This was just for fun remember? We do know that this engine is going to use lower boost levels but that it was also developed to use much higher boost, upto around 29psi. We know what the other World engine powered cars are making and with what psi levels they are doing it with. The Caliber SRT-4s are right around 285HP on roughly 15psi of boost. This however is with 2.4l of displacement. The EVOs are running similar HP numbers, around 295HP on ~19.5 psi but with smaller displacement.

My speculation is that Hyundai knows that this is a low amount of boost. They also know that people are gonna modify. If they didn't they wouldn't have had all those tuner and performance companies take a look at the car and get them interested in the car.

Anyways, those are just my thoughts, I'm interested in what everyone else thinks.

Its underrated from the factory and I am willing to bet that they will dyno more around 240 WHP just like the stock SRT4 Neons did. I would make a bet at the stock boost levels being 10 psi or so. Now the real question would be how much room did they put into the turbo for us to play with? I would suspect that we are not going to get the same amount of room with the 2.0 motor as we are getting with the 2.0 motor. But there should be lots of room to upgrade with since the car is RWD, don't have to fight with the trans being in the way for larger turbos and bigger intercooler options.

 

[civictd04]

That would be so awesome if the turbo four was way underated.

 

[Tufast]

That would be so awesome if the turbo four was way underated.

I agree, since I'm planning on leaving it stock for a while, the more power from the factory, the better.:clap:



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[GenesisFan]

This is an interesting discussion. Looks like there is some power numbers coming out of Korea so I guess we will know more on where we stand in the boost department once more info becomes available. But it does seem to make sense that Hyundai leaves room for growth in the engine/turbo. They are marketing this car towards the tuner "ricer" crowd, and if they have done their research right they know this group of people will tweak and tune to get more power. Too bad this car won't be released in the US market for another few months. It just seems we got more companies here who are experts in modifying then they have in Korea. Maybe I will be surprised.

 

[Sabbasaun]

Its underrated from the factory and I am willing to bet that they will dyno more around 240 WHP just like the stock SRT4 Neons did. I would make a bet at the stock boost levels being 10 psi or so. Now the real question would be how much room did they put into the turbo for us to play with? I would suspect that we are not going to get the same amount of room with the 2.0 motor as we are getting with the 2.0 motor. But there should be lots of room to upgrade with since the car is RWD, don't have to fight with the trans being in the way for larger turbos and bigger intercooler options.

There is definitely lots of room for adding on parts. We got some engine bay shots of the turbo four that we will post up. BFMIC I think would be a logical upgrade in addition to turning up the boost. Some of the exhaust shots I have seen indicates that a big improvement can be made there as well. I'm guessing with simple bolt ons there is easily20-50 HP that can be freed up.



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[GenesisFan]

I agree, since I'm planning on leaving it stock for a while, the more power from the factory, the better.:clap:

You say you'll leave it stock, but soon the hypnotic sounds of the turbo whine will get to you and you will succumb to the temptation and raise the boost... I've seen it happen to soooo many people, including me!

 

[Tufast]

FastCoupe, you are probably right. I'll try restraint, but how long will that last. I've owned my bimmer for 2 & half years and with it being an Mspt model has plenty of power & handling. Matter of fact it performs as well as most coupes out there, but I'm going to finally start mods on it this month. Nothing special, front & rear strut tower braces, aEf less restictive air filter (factory air box is sorta cold air set up), Magnaflow less restrictive muffler (factory piping is 2 3/4"), rear lip wing, & carbon fiber canards (dive planes) downforce front bumper treatment. The car from the factory sits an 0.8 inch lower than standard 540i, has lower gearing in the transmission & rear end, revs higher & holds it longer than standard 540i, has Z rated performance Michilin tires, & will run 5.7 0-60 times, yet I still fell the need to tweak & this car does not even have the "hypnotic sound of the turbo".
Oh ya, its my birthday, its my birthday, so now you know why I'm going to drop over a grand on the bimmer, my present to myself. I've decided to keep the BMW, pay it off, then purchase the turbo GenCoupe.



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[PTPerformance]

There is definitely lots of room for adding on parts. We got some engine bay shots of the turbo four that we will post up. BFMIC I think would be a logical upgrade in addition to turning up the boost. Some of the exhaust shots I have seen indicates that a big improvement can be made there as well. I'm guessing with simple bolt ons there is easily20-50 HP that can be freed up.

I will add that to the list. Any pictures of the front end? This will make or break if we can do a larger or BFMIC on the car. I don't like pulling the bumper beam so we will either work around it of make a replacment for it.

 

[civictd04]

Photos courtesy of BKMania: